Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Let's start.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: Hello, this is G2 interview and this is anonymous.
So first interview question is, when and where were you born?
[00:00:13] Speaker A: I was born in Leningrad, which is called St. Petersburg right now, in the country that was back then called ussr. Now that territory is the Russian Federation in what year? 1976.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: So you grew up in an urban area.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: What was your family's religious background?
[00:00:35] Speaker A: Like almost every Jew in the ussr, my parents grew up without any knowledge of any Jewish observances.
They had Jewish national identity. They know that they were Jewish by birth. But the Soviet regime was not allowing teaching anything about any religion at all. And specifically, they were putting even bigger emphasis on the Jewish religion.
In the first years of the establishment of the USSR after the Communist revolution, they created a special department of En Kavada, which was the precursor for which was the grandfather of Kagabeh KGB as it's known in English.
So there was a special Jewish department of Ein Kvede that was aimed at specifically stemming out Jewish religion.
And my both parents were born in the ussr. They were born in Leningrad before the war, before World War II, immediately prior to it, as a matter of fact. And they were raised in Communist schools and with a communist atmosphere that was not allowing any knowledge of anything Jewish. Jewish traditions, Jewish laws, Jewish customs, Jewish language.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: So being a Jewish person in the USSR in your experience, was just cultural, not religious?
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Not even. It was not cultural, it was not religious. It was a Jewish identity. In other words, Jewish nationality.
And in the ussr, your nationality was written in your passport. You see here in America, being a Jew is a religion. In the ussr, being a Jew was a nationality, and it was written in your passport. And people who had this mark in their passport had much harder time getting jobs, had much harder time getting admitted to universities, and were facing all other kinds of discrimination.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: So your family and community wasn't religious when you were growing up?
[00:02:44] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: Can you describe your family's religious practices when you were young? If there were any at all? Because I know that some people, when they grew up in Leningrad, they would get matzah from the synagogue. Would you like to do that?
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Yes, we did.
This was one of very few things that we did. And we did get matzah, for example, from a synagogue before Passover. As we found out later, this matzah was not even a real matzah.
In other words, by Jewish law, it was not even produced according to the laws of matzah. It was not really suitable for the Passover holiday. But we did not know that it was the only semblance of matzah that people were able to obtain. And yes, people were. Our family was getting matzah from the local synagogue. Correct.
[00:03:30] Speaker B: And were there any ritual celebrations or traditions that you practiced privately or at home? Whenever you would get the matzah, for example, would you eat that at home or at the synagogue?
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Well, as a child, I never went to a synagogue. My mother had only one experience when she tried to go to synagogue and she was almost arrested. It was a Jewish holiday of Simchat Torah when she was in college then, and she and her Jewish college friends decided to go to a synagogue for their holiday. And my mother came late. And when she showed up on the block of the synagogue, she saw that the entire building was surrounded by police and they were putting people into these big buses and driving them off.
And my mother turned around and ran the other way. When she came next day to her school, these friends that she made up to go to school with were not there anymore.
So my mother was nearly arrested for trying to attend the synagogue. And since then, our family never even tried that.
My grandparents were the ones who would go to synagogue to buy matzah there.
My parents did not.
And up until 12 years old, I've never been to a synagogue. When I was 12 years old, for the first time, I went to a synagogue on my own.
It was my initiative. And back then, Soviet Union was already falling apart, so it wasn't as dangerous and as bad. So that's why my mother reluctantly agreed.
[00:05:02] Speaker B: So were your grandparents, they had that religious tie gun.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: My grandparents were both born right before the Communist revolution, and they were growing up in the founding years of the ussr. So back then, yeah, my grandparents were not born in Leningrad. Before the revolution, Jews were not allowed to live in Leningrad. So they were all from little towns in Ukraine and Belarussia.
And there everybody spoke Yiddish. And it was a Jewish town where, you know, there was everything around was Jewish. And they absorbed a lot of Jewish culture. Even though growing up it was already the times of the USSR when religion was prohibited, but still much of Jewish culture and Jewish language was still there. And that's where they grew up. And that's how they were able to carry it through their lives. But obviously they did not pass it on to their children, which are my parents, because they were afraid to do that and because there was no format to do that.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: That makes sense, and that does bring a lot of light towards that situation.
But I have heard that as well, how grandparents that were born before the communist revolution, they did have that Jewish community to keep their faith and identity alive, especially like the Yiddish that you mentioned. Were there any religious holidays or rites that were difficult to observe under Soviet rule? And how did your family manage?
[00:06:25] Speaker A: Not in our family.
My grandmother fasted on Yom Kippur and I think she was the only one in our family who did.
She would also light a lamp in memory of her parents and also on Yom Kippur instead of a candle. You see, in Jewish law you're supposed to light a memorial candle on Yom Kippur and on the anniversaries of passing of your relatives. She did not light a candle. It would look too obvious. She would light a lamp.
This was my maternal grandmother. She was the only one who would actually keep at least some of the traditions, whatever she remembered.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: And whenever she would light that lamp, I'm assuming the blinds would be closed.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: Well, what she did, it was very inconspicuous. It would be just like one floor lamp in the house. It would be just left lit the whole day and she would just keep it on. And when I came to her house, she would tell me, don't put it out. I'm keeping it on for, you know, in memory of my parents, but don't put it out.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: How did you learn about your faith from family community or secretly from clergy or teachers?
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Well, again, I ask you about faith or about my Jewish identity?
[00:07:39] Speaker B: Both, because Judaism is an ethno religion, right?
So I think it can definitely be woven into two things. But in this context, I am asking about your Jewish identity.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: So if you are asking me how it was in my perception in Soviet Union, it's one thing. If you ask me how it is in reality, it's a different thing.
In reality, Judaism is both religion and ethnicity because it is a religion which is given to only specific group of people, to any specific nationality. In other words, it's as opposed to probably most of religions around the world. Judaism doesn't profess that everybody should be following it. In other words, Christians or Muslims probably would tell you that they believe that the whole world would be better if everybody would become respectively Christian or Muslim. Jews don't believe that.
Jews believe that their religion is only for this nation, for whoever is born Jewish. Now there is a way to convert to Judaism, but it's a whole separate process and it's minority over minority people who actually end up doing it. So Judaism is both religion and nationality. Now in the ussr, Judaism and being Jewish was identified strictly as nationality.
And I actually, I found out that I'm Jewish from my classmates. When I went to got beat up for it in the first grade, that's how I learned that I'm Jewish. And that was very typical for somebody in the ussr, for a Jew in the ussr. In other words, my parents at home never discussed that. You know, I was never told by my parents, you know what, you are Jewish. And therefore something or other.
The Jewish identity was never discussed by us. But when I was in the first grade, I once got beat up by my friends and they were telling me that I'm a Jew. And I came home and I asked my mother, what is a Jew? I did not know what Jew meant.
And she told me, yeah, that we are Jewish. And that's why you gotta get up.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: And how did these classmates know? Was it because they looked through folders or something or something else like identity or stereotypes?
[00:09:57] Speaker A: Well, so first of all, the looks. Russian nation is Slavic. And usually Slavic people have more pale skin and they have white or close to blonde hair, different shape of eyes than, let's say, more, you know, Central Asian or Semitic people. So that's why Jews usually can be distinguished by their looks.
Also, Jews had different last names. Usually, even though my last name was not specifically Jewish, my last name, Bilinsky.
It could be either way, Russian or Jewish. But I'm sure somebody, these kids, when they were in first grade, they themselves probably didn't figure things out on their own. Probably they heard their parents saying that, oh, this kid in your class is Jewish. And that's what they picked up on. And that's why I got bullied.
[00:10:50] Speaker B: So did you or your family ever face restrictions, harassment, or curse you because of your identity? So the bullying was one thing.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: I mean, it was on every step of the way.
My father couldn't find a job because he was Jewish. My mother, when she was in school, she was first. They were refusing to let her graduate the school. My mother was a very talented mathematician. And when she was graduating, they would not allow her to get her diploma.
And her professor, who was not Jewish, who was ethnically Russian, said that if you are not allowing her to get her diploma, I'm going to resign from my job.
And he put his job online and he saved my mother. And then later on, when my mother finished graduate school and got her PhD, she got her thesis done and she went through all of the motions. So she technically got her PhD, but she would not get the paper that she has a PhD, the diploma, for 17 years, they were not giving it to her. And she kept coming to the appropriate offices Asking for it. And they were telling her, well, no, no, we have a long waiting list and there are many people in front of you. And here you could look at the last names who are still waiting together with you. And they would give her list of last names. And these were all clearly Jewish last names.
So this is how they were specifically telling her that because you are Jewish, you will have to wait. And she was waiting for it for 17 years.
And as I mentioned to you, my father, he wanted to teach.
Both parents were mathematicians. My father, he wanted to teach. But there was an official rule that they would not accept Jews in teaching positions because they didn't want Jews to be in a position of influence.
So he would not give them a teaching job. And also before that, when he was trying to get his PhD again, he went to grad school. He was working on his PhD and everything, post doc. And his professor, his, what are you called, the mentor, the guiding professor, the advisor, that was the word I was looking for. He made a mistake by having his advisor being Jewish as well. He thought that because his advisor would be Jewish so he would be easier for him because his advisor is also Jewish, so, you know, he would get better shot. Turned out to be the other way. It backfired. Because not only he was Jewish, his advisor was Jewish. So they purposely failed him and he never got his PhD. So my mother passed all the tests and she got her thesis, defendant and everything, but she was waiting for the official paper. My father didn't even get that because they purposely failed him because he was Jewish and his advisor was Jewish as well.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: This is all in Russia, not in other Soviet countries.
[00:13:35] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:36] Speaker B: How did you and your community respond to these restrictions?
[00:13:41] Speaker A: Every Jew in Russia knew that if in Russia, the grade system in school and universities like here, you have like percentages, like you get like certain amount of percent or it's A, B, C, D, E, F. Right. In Russia, it was one to five.
The grading school is one to five. Five is the best and one is the worst.
So they're saying that every Jewish kid in Russia heard, if you want to get a five, you need to know the material good enough for six, you.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Guys have to go above and beyond.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Because you're a Jew.
[00:14:15] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:14:16] Speaker B: I always heard that Jewish people had to be very resilient and that there was no option to fail.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: And that if there was a way to be better, you would take that.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Rather than that.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:14:34] Speaker B: So in order to respond to these restrictions, you Guys wanted to and would just overcompensate.
[00:14:42] Speaker A: That's right. We had to overcompensate.
[00:14:44] Speaker B: Correct.
Were the. Were there ways the community tried to continue any sort of religious education that you know of for Jewish rituals, despite state limitations?
[00:14:58] Speaker A: I told you about how I grew up in the ussr. Okay. At the same time, in the ussr, there were underground Jewish institutions that my parents, when they grew up, did not know about.
And as a matter of fact, when my mother was first discovering their existence, she was in total disbelief.
But there were underground Jewish schools, underground synagogues, that it was actually very funny because for the foreigners and for the outside, the USSR was trying to pretend that they have freedom of religion. That's why every large city had a synagogue. So Leningrad had a synagogue. It had a beautiful. It was called Grand Choral Synagogue. And it was open. And primarily the people who were going there were older people. And if somebody younger would go there, they would lose their job or sometimes would be put in prison, depending on the time.
And if he was a college student, he would be kicked out of his school or something like that. So only older people who were already retired, who had nothing to lose, would go to synagogue. And government was kind of turning blind eye on it, especially because it needed to pretend that they have freedom of religion. But having said that, people who were really observant would never go to synagogue, because everybody knew that whoever goes to the synagogue is getting reported to the government.
So they would stay clear of the synagogue, and they would usually meet up in someone's house, or they would sometimes rent a house, like somewhere far out on the outskirts, and that's where they would meet up or something like that.
But there were. When. I'll just give you some historic background.
When the revolution happened in 1917, back then, Russia, as well as most of other republics of the USSR had a great number of observant Jews and a great number of rabbis.
As soon as revolution happened, they all realized that they cannot survive as observant Jews in the ussr. So either they chose to flee the country or they assimilated and they stopped being observant.
There was one person, one Jewish leader who refused to leave and refused to stop being observant. Not only that, he took upon himself to establish networks of underground Jewish institutions.
His name was Rabbi Yosef Yitzhak Schneerson, and he's known today as the 6th Lubavitch rebbe. 6th Lubavitcher rebbe Lubavitch is spelled L, U, B, A, V, I, T, C, H.
Lubavitch the word Lubavitch is taken from the town in Belarusia where this movement comes from.
So the history was that the revolution happened 1917.
For a few years Russia still had civil war going on and the communist regime kind of established itself fully about 1920.
This is the time when the previous Rebbes, the six Lubavitch Rebbes father passed away in 1920.
And first his father was the leader of that movement. And then when he passed away in 1940, this is when the previously Babish Rebbe, Rabbi Yoshevitzhok became the leader. And he created a whole network of underground schools and underground synagogues and government was after him. This is why in the beginning I mentioned to you that the government created a special Jewish department in their Enceveda organization. So they created it specially to fight him, specifically to fight his network.
And he was running it very successfully. And he was also a very well known person abroad as well. And that's why the Russian government was afraid back then to touch him. They thought that if they were going to cut his network, they're going to cut off all of his connections and they will eliminate all of his helpers. Then he's going to be helpless and he will not do anything. But at that time they were still afraid to do what anything to him personally. And then they saw it wasn't working because every time they would catch people, he would find new people to replace them. Every time they would bust a Jewish school somewhere, he would find somewhere else where it will open up. And then in 1927 they arrested him and he was arrested in 1927. He was put in jail. And originally he was supposed to be put to death. But because of the pressure that foreign countries have applied, specifically the countries that were putting pressure on the USSR back then were the US And Herbert Hoover back then was a senator, even though he was not Jewish himself, but he was a senator. I think he was involved in human rights movement of those days. And he as a senator was petitioning the US government to put pressure on the ussr. Justice Brandeis, who was Jewish himself, also was helping that.
And this was from the USA side. And then besides Germany and Latvia were two other countries that were putting a lot of pressure on the ussr. And one of the reasons why they were able to do it, because USSR was back then fighting to be recognized by other states.
And those countries, Germany and Latvia were telling them, well, if you are doing such a thing to such a prominent rabbi, if you are imprisoning him, then we cannot Recognize you.
So this was at least somewhat of a leverage.
And that's why he was not put to death first. They replaced death sentence. They switched it to exile in like faraway city. And then sometime later they released him completely. But they released him, letting him know clearly that he cannot stay in the USSR because he was literally followed 24 7. He would not be able to continue his work at all. And they have informed him of that. And that's why he realized that the only way he has to continue his work is to leave the ussr. He left USSR first to Riga, where he spent three years in Latvia, and then to Poland. And from there from abroad. He was more effective than he was in the USSR because he was first of all sending a lot of money to people who were doing work for him. He was able to support their work. He was raising money in the Western Europe, in Central and Western Europe, he was raising money for them. He also came to the US in 1929 to raise money for his operations.
And that's actually a pretty tragic story because he raised over $1 million back then. To raise a million dollars was, you know, you could google how much million dollars of 1929 is worth today. He raised $1 million and he lost all of it in stock market crash of 1929.
So that wasn't a very positive experience here. But he was from Poland, where he lived, from Riga and then from Riga and then from Warsaw, where he lived. He was still in charge. He was receiving regularly updates and he was giving instructions on what people should do and how they should do it. He was sending them money.
He had his people that would bring information and deliver information.
And that's how he ran this whole operation up until World War II.
And then after World War II he immigrated to the US. He was in Poland up until when Poland was already occupied by the Nazis. He miraculously was able to save himself from Poland when it was already under the German occupation. He came to the US and he continued this work in the US until 1950 when he passed away.
And our current Lubavitcher Rebbe Rabbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson, his son in law, continued this work from 1951.
And he led this effort all through the time when Soviet Union already fell apart.
And from the US he was coordinating underground work of all of these institutions in various cities. Like for example, like I told you, my parents grew up in Leningrad. They were born and raised in Leningrad. They had no clue that Leningrad had people who were observant their entire Lives.
They were observing Shabbat, they were observing kosher. They were, you know, they were having secret synagogue services. Nobody knew about it. But there were people like this. Not only there were people who were doing it themselves. Later on, I saw I met people who became observant because of these people's influence. In other words, not only they were sticking themselves to it, they were whenever they could, helping others become more observant.
So this was the underground work that was happening at the same time simultaneously. And you can imagine how dangerous it was, because when I already was a preteen or teenager in the ussr, when I started going to synagogue, it was already better times. So nobody was already afraid they're going to be put in jail for just attending a synagogue. But people who taught me were those who, almost every one of them, as far as I can remember, spent time in jail for teaching the Torah.
And obviously, when as soon as Soviet Union started falling apart and became a little bit easier to observe Jewish customs, these underground institutions sprung up. And that's why there was such a big resurgence of Jewish life immediately after Soviet Union fell apart.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: So, next question. When you went to synagogue as a preteen teenager, you said you started going when you were 12, right?
Did you have any texts with you that they gave to you or anything, Anything that you hid?
[00:24:36] Speaker A: We had a relative who was immigrating to Israel from the ussr, and before she left to Israel, she was studying Hebrew, and she had a Hebrew textbook in her house.
And as she was leaving, she offered my mother just to keep this textbook. She gave it to her. She didn't need it in Israel.
And my mother took it from her and she hid it. People were afraid to have a Hebrew textbook. People were. In the times of the ussr, people were sometimes put in jail for just the sin of studying Hebrew language. So my mother hid it. And I just. Because I was a little boy who liked making trouble, I was rummaging through all of the places where my mother didn't want me to look, and I found this textbook. And I just decided I'm going to be learning Hebrew just because I found it. I think because it was hidden and because it was something that my mother obviously didn't want anyone to see. She wasn't hiding specifically from me. She was hiding it from everyone. And obviously she didn't want me or my sister, I have a sister. She didn't want kids to find because, you know, kids cannot keep secrets. You know, kids always talk, and they don't have filters. So my mother obviously didn't want her kids to find it, but because it was something which was hidden. I guess this was what also gave me a push to pay special attention to it. I started learning Hebrew. So when I came to synagogue, I was already like, I knew how to read Hebrew, put it this way.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: So when you went to the synagogue in Russia, you already knew how to read it.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: When I came there for the first time, it was Jewish holiday of Purim. That's when I was able to. They were reading a text of the story of Esther. Actually, the story of Esther happened in Persia.
The entire holiday of Purim is about Jews being in Persia. They were reading the text of the story of the holiday and they were reading it in Hebrew. And I was able to follow.
The rabbi was really weirded out because back then, like everybody who knew how to read Hebrew was like hanging around the synagogue. So everybody knew. People who knew how to read Hebrew knew each other. And here comes a kid out of nowhere and he reads Hebrew. They were really curious why it was. That's how this relationship started.
[00:26:43] Speaker B: So you were just like a 12 year old up in there reading a whole Hebrew text?
[00:26:47] Speaker A: Right. I didn't understand what I was reading. I didn't know any words, or maybe I knew two words, but I knew the letters. And that was already kind of. That's already way ahead of 99 of Jewish population of the USSR.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah, because I was.
I was just at an event yesterday talking about Soviet theory at the capital Jewish. And they were talking about how there wasn't an explicit rule that banned the teaching of Hebrew, but they did crack down on anyone that was teaching.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:27:16] Speaker B: Because it was Soviet.
[00:27:17] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:27:19] Speaker B: That was really interesting.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: So what was the biggest obstacle in preserving your cultural identity during the Soviet period?
[00:27:27] Speaker A: Well, there were two things. First of all, there was a government antisemitism. In other words, like I said, people were not able to get jobs if they were Jewish. People were not able to be accepted in some more advanced universities if they were Jewish. There were special professions that were closed for the Jews. Like government positions were closed for the Jews. This was the government sponsored antisemitism. And besides for that, there was what people called street antisemitism. Like what I experienced in school, bullying and being beaten up. Like, you know, it was totally normal for a Jew to walk on the street in Russia and just somebody yells at him, you dirty Jew, get out of here. It was like a totally normal thing. Or even to be punched or beat up just because you were Jewish. It was a totally normal Thing.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: So it was like society.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:28:12] Speaker B: So how important was your local community in preserving your identity?
[00:28:18] Speaker A: You're saying after I started becoming observant already?
[00:28:21] Speaker B: Yeah. So when you were 12 and attending synagogue and whatnot, and being observant, was your community at the synagogue or the observant Jewish community in Lenderet as a. That you were able to connect with? If you did, were they integral to.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: Sure, sure. They became like second family. Yes. Because there were not a lot of people who were observant back then, especially my age. And we all became best friends and like family. And they. We all spent our entire time together and we were helping each other because it was very difficult to observe. These are also the years when Soviet Union was falling apart and it was real shortage of everything and anything. There was no food, there was no clothing. There was no. The stores were totally empty. The joke back then was that somebody walks into a store and asks, excuse me, you don't have meat, do you? They say, no, we don't have fish. The store next door doesn't have meat. There was like, really nothing. And keeping kosher under these conditions was especially difficult. If we would not be helping out each other, we would not be able to survive.
And plus there was still old remnants of street antisemitism. Plus there was old remnants of government antisemitism. So it was still playing together.
People are still getting beaten up for being Jewish. And my teacher, who was teaching me in synagogue, still had a bright yellow car follow him wherever he goes.
No, it was intimidation tactic. They purposely. These guys, if they would want to hide, they knew how to do it better than anyone else. They purposely had this bright yellow car, which is very distinctive and very noticeable, to follow him as a part of. Intimidation tactic. Right.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: Did you try to teach your family these customs originally?
[00:29:57] Speaker A: Right. So we spoke about it, and my entire family subsequently became observant as well.
[00:30:02] Speaker B: Yeah. One thing I've noticed is the community bonds that Jewish people have. At the lecture yesterday, they were discussing how people like Jewish people, specifically the American Jews, were trying to get the Soviet Jews out of ussr and they developed this whole process to get them over, like adopting a prisoner.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: Or this and that. And they were like, you know, the most wonderful thing about this is because. Is that the American Jews didn't even know the names of any of the Soviet Jews. They just knew that they were Jewish and that they needed to be saved.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Right, Correct.
[00:30:39] Speaker B: So there were informal networks gathering in recent years in secret meetings to practice or observe Judaism. So when you were attending that synagogue and being observant, would you start attending those underground meetings?
[00:30:57] Speaker A: Right. Well, as I said, it was already time when Soviet Union was falling apart. They were not as underground as they were before.
People were, like, trying to do things more openly and, like, seeing if it's going to work and, like, if I was safe doing this, let me do kind of something else, you know what I mean? It was like those years we had Jewish classes back then. We had Jewish gatherings for holidays. More and more Jews were starting to come into synagogue just because it became more allowed, it became more available. So people were just coming out of woodworks and joining Jewish organizations because they never had this experience before.
[00:31:34] Speaker B: And the rabbi at the synagogue was seen in Tabrilfish 100%.
[00:31:41] Speaker A: He was my teacher back then who helped me become observant and helped me, taught me everything. He lives in Israel now, but back then he lived in Leningrad. His name was Mikhail Koretz. You could look him up on YouTube, actually give some classes there. My kids studied a year in Israel. They came to visit him. I mean, they never met him, but they know that he was the one who helped me become who I am today. So our whole family is indebted to him. Yes.
[00:32:07] Speaker B: Did interactions with neighbors or extended family affect how you practice your religion and or identity? So before you were observant, did your family, like your grandparents, as you mentioned, they tried to carry on some conditions, but did another, like that synagogue leader, did he ever connect you to other communities that taught you even more, that you started practicing and implementing into your faith again?
[00:32:36] Speaker A: Are you asking me before I became observant about my grandparents and my parents, or you're asking about after I became observant?
[00:32:45] Speaker B: I'm asking about both. So before you were observant, you said you had no idea what being Jewish was? You had no idea you were Jewish until you asked your parents. But the traditions that your grandparents carried on, did that give you some. Any sibling semblance into looking more, or did that textbook that you found at your mom's face kind of trigger you?
[00:33:08] Speaker A: Well, since the day that I knew that I'm Jewish, it was kind of like this family, I guess you could say, family secret that, like, we all knew that we were Jewish, but we didn't speak about it.
And my parents connected to other Jews, my grandparents connected to other Jews, and they were discussing the difficulties of being Jewish and discussing antisemitism together. But when they were talking about it, they would send me and my sister out of the room. Because we as a kids were not allowed to be part of these conversations.
And, you know, and then somehow, it's funny, I went to a summer camp, and when I came back from a summer camp, I was showing our bunk picture. And our bunk was huge, like 40 kids or something like that. And I showed in this picture, this is the boy that I became friends with.
And I remember my grandmother looking at me, says, why'd you become friends with this boy? I'm like, I don't know. We just became friends.
It was the only other Jew in the whole bunk out of 40 kids. So two of us became best friends and none of us knew that the other one is Jewish. It was like, you know. Right, exactly. It was like, I actually even remember his name till this very day we became Jewish. I guess it was something that was drawing, like maybe some conscious cultural something, but it was never with us with kids. It was never, never openly discussed in the summer camp.
[00:34:31] Speaker B: What year was it?
[00:34:32] Speaker A: I was nine years old, probably.
[00:34:35] Speaker B: It was great seeing with you. Thank you so, so, so sure for this much information. I love learning it. And, you know, as a kid, I used to have, like, a very niche interest in Judaism, ever since I had my first latke as a kid. Interesting shout out to Jacob Craig. Loved him, but, yeah, it's beautiful. Religion and the people themselves are so warm and welcoming from what I've experienced. And I'm so grateful that you were able to share your experience with me. And I will see you next.
[00:35:06] Speaker A: Sure.
